Inspired by Sidney Crosby and Alexander Semin last weekend, we asked our ESPN.com puckheads whether they thought NHL stars should drop the gloves. Not surprisingly, the responses came in swiftly and in big numbers.
acarrig: While I don't think that the stars of the NHL should be fighting, I think it has become a necessity. With the implementation of the changes to the instigator rule in '05, any player on the ice can take shots at your star player without fear of retaliation. If someone takes a cheap shot at Sidney Crosby, it now has to be Sidney Crosby that stands up for himself.
One example of this was on December 19th when the Sabres played the Kings. After Denis Gauthier missed hitting Patrick Kaleta with an elbow to the head, Gauthier skated up behind Kaleta and punched him from behind. Kaleta was knocked out of the game and missed the next two games because of the hit. Later that game, Gauthier wouldn't drop the gloves with Adam Mair.
The instigator rule was the reason Gauthier was able to get away with such a cheap shot. Had anyone on the ice at the time of the punch gone after Gauthier, they would have been penalized an instigator minor penalty, a major for fighting, a 10-minute misconduct and an automatic one-game suspension.
The instigator rule has put the cuffs on the enforcers, who should be out there defending their stars. That's part of their role. Let the enforcers do this and maybe players would think twice before hitting the NHL stars. Your stars would shine brighter, if they're not looking over their shoulders, and they would have longer careers. If I knew that Domi, Ray or Probert were going to be after me, I would think twice before hitting Crosby or any star.
My take: Actually, the instigator penalty was instituted in 1992, but otherwise, I completely agree with this viewpoint. All the instigator penalty has done is allow cheap-shot artists to run around the ice and not pay the price for their actions. In the meantime, star players often have to defend themselves because enforcers are fearful of putting their team down a man because of an instigator. The penalty simply has not worked. Period. And I know several NHL GMs who fully agree with me. As long as fighting is allowed in the NHL, the instigator should be dropped. You either have fighting, or you don't. But the optics, in the United States, for the NHL head office to eliminate the instigator are not good. Some people could twist it to mean the league would be condoning fighting. Because of that, I don't think we'll ever see the instigator dropped.
calbearfan82: If the situation drastically calls for a fight and the player in question has the ability to handle himself in a scrap, then yes, the gloves should be dropped. Otherwise, absolutely not. Guys like Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Marleau, Lecavalier, Hossa, etc., are being paid to make critical plays on the ice, not to sit in the penalty box for fights. When you lose your talented players to the Sin Bin, it makes a huge difference on the ice.
Joe Thornton is a prime example of this; he's a big guy and able to handle himself in a fight, but when he's put in the penalty box, there's a visible difference in the number of quality scoring chances because he's such a big playmaker. I'm not saying that a player shouldn't stand up for himself if someone cross checks him in the back or boards him, but there's no reason for key players to go around picking fights. Leave the fighting to the enforcers, because having half your top line in the penalty box because of a stupid fight only helps the other team.
My take: I will never forget the night during the 2004 Stanley Cup finals when Vincent Lecavalier and Jarome Iginla dropped the gloves. It was May 29, Game 3. Two superstars trying to get their teams going. Nothing premeditated, a spur-of-the-moment clash of fists. Great stuff. Having said all that, if I was running an NHL team, I would be cringing. One broken hand and you're out your best player for a long time. For that reason, I don't think star players should fight. I know from talking to them how frustrated they can get and how much it sometimes just boils over. But, whenever possible, I would prefer seeing Iginla and Lecavalier try to motivate with a big check or a big goal or a clutch play. Let the tough guys drop the gloves. Oh, and Semin? He should never fight again!
chilly2351: I think fighting is what makes hockey look bush league. Take it out all together. If you want to change a game, go put a legit check on someone.
sawking14: Heck, yeah. Fighting is part of hockey, and if you're a star and you can drop the gloves to defend yourself then more power to him. It shows you have guts and your teammates will look up to and follow your lead. That's what makes Sidney Crosby such a special player; he not only has the finesse/offensive skill we haven't seen since The Great One, but he also has the toughness of a Messier. This guy is legit.
My take: Interesting that these two postings were six minutes apart on the message board. The two extremes! Fighting has been ingrained in the game for a long, long time. So yes, it is indeed part of the game. I'll have more on that in my final thought, and you might be surprised.
WisconsinNick: You bet they should fight! A star like Crosby can't be the nice guy ALL the time. Night in and night out, someone like Crosby is always targeted by some goon and it's about time he got pissed off and threw off the gloves. Maybe it will send a message saying, I won't take this any more.
My take: I have the pleasure of working in the same CBC studio in Toronto with the legendary Don Cherry for "Hockey Night In Canada" every Saturday night. I can tell you for a fact that long before Crosby ever dropped the gloves last weekend and exploded in frustration on poor old Brett McLean, Cherry had predicted to us it would happen soon. Cherry's reasoning was that Crosby was taking way too much abuse and was going to explode at some point. Cherry was right.
Col. Lando: I don't think they have to, that's why guys like Marty McSorley and Georges Laraque were so important, to protect the likes of Gretzky and Crosby. The days of Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay and Maurice Richard are over. I also think Sidney Crosby should let the big boyz handle that stuff, and I think Semin should never be allowed to fight again; terrible. But there is something to be said about guys who are not scared of protecting themselves. The recent star players that weren't scared of mixing it up that jump to mind are Mark Messier, Doug Gilmour, Gary Roberts, Wendell Clark, Vinny Lecavalier and Olli Jokinen, but those guys would all be a lot more valuable on the ice, rather than in the box. So no, they shouldn't.
My take: Interesting theories out there on tough guys. Brian Burke's Anaheim Ducks led the NHL in fighting majors in 2007 and won the Cup. The 2008 Stanley Cup-champion Detroit Red Wings rarely dressed one last season. Still don't. Hasn't seemed to hurt them. The Montreal Canadiens insisted last season they also didn't need one. Then, they got pushed around by the Boston Bruins and Philadelphia Flyers in the playoffs and reversed course, signing Georges Laraque to a three-year deal. The Wings have team toughness; the Habs don't. But the jury is out and GMs can't agree on whether or not they need one.
daveNYR24: Pierre, you can stop saying Crosby looked good in his fight, you hack. Did you miss when he surprised McLean after a faceoff and shoved his head down, making him helpless? Crosby is a coward that should try agreeing to fight before making it look like he's an accomplished fighter. That's why he got kicked off the ice. I think he was just as much of a girl as Semin was about his fight. Stop worshiping Crosby; he is the biggest whiner in the league and can't even fight someone face to face.
My take: Yes, many of you hammered me on the fact that I said Crosby did well in that fight last weekend. I guess I meant to say I was surprised he didn't lose since fighting isn't a big part of his acumen. But, in all honesty, it wasn't much of a fight as it turns out. I accept my criticism from the ESPN.com puckheads like a man. After all, you pay my bills. Still, I am somewhat amazed at all the Crosby bashers that find their way on this site. Reminds me of all the people who used to hate Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. There's too much hate in our world, kids! Here's the one thing I can tell you Crosby bashers out there: I've had the chance to actually cover him and talk to him on many occasions. He's been nothing but classy and polite. Much like Alex Ovechkin and Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane. Fans don't have the luxury of getting to know players like we in the media do, and I'm telling you, no matter how much you hate him, Sid the Kid is a stand-up guy.
Kavaliunas: Fighting is something that should not be a part of hockey. It takes away from the sport and is a barbaric way of taking out aggression, anger and hatred on an opponent. Having said that, I feel that stars fighting in the NHL is just as justifiable as anyone else in the league. Being a Blackhawks fan, I am itching for the day when Kane and Toews throw down against an opponent. Sometimes a leader of a team in the NHL has to stand up for his linemates. If that man wearing a "C" or "A" is a superstar, so be it. If that superstar wins or loses the fight, it makes no difference because the only thing that matters is the outcome of the game. Yet, it would be nice to see Lidstrom to get his butt whopped even though the Hawks cannot beat the Wings.
My take/final word: I will use this final posting as the last word. The following will surprise many people who have known me for a long time, especially people in my personal life. I grew up loving fighting and was known to drop the gloves a few times myself growing up in Northern Ontario. I got a rush from it, even if it meant waking up in a hospital after taking one particular beating.
But, I have to say, I have slowly begun to change my mind on fighting. It started when Todd Fedoruk had his face broken in a fight a few years ago and left the ice on a stretcher. When I spoke to him about a week later, he admitted to me that he believed it was possible a player could die one day in an NHL fight. By the same token, he still believed fighting was part of the game. He suggested tough guys wear special gloves like in Mixed Martial Arts.
I'm not so sure about that, but I do share his belief that a player may die one day in an NHL fight. And I know that's the biggest fear at the highest levels of the league. It's going to take big nerve, but I think it's time to seriously consider banning fighting in the league. My dad would fall off his chair if he even knew how to get on the Internet and read this.
Pierre LeBrun
