Monday, December 3, 2001
Time for a little mail bonding
From the Page 2 mailbag
After checking out Chris McKendry's column on men, we were sure a lot of guys had some thoughts.
So we asked Page 2 readers to send in their observations.
Here are the best of the more than 600 e-mails we received.
Important research material.
Very perceptive, for the most part. I do, however, take umbrage at Chris'
comments regarding men going to the bathroom. Sure, we have many euphemisms
for going to the bathroom, but at least we go alone!
Whether just among other women or in mixed company, a woman will always turn
to at least one other woman and say something like, "I'm going to the ladies
room, wanna come?" Just what goes on in there that you want friends in there with you? Jeremy Markman
Oceanside, N.Y.
Chris, Chris, Chris! Quoting "Blazing Saddles" and laughing for 10 minutes
does not constitute a conversation. Quoting "Monty Python's Search
for the Holy Grail" and laughing for 10 minutes constitutes a conversation.
Women. How little they know. Mark Passwaters
College Station, Texas
As a faithful ESPN.com and even more so an avid page 2 reader, I thought
this piece was great. I think she has nailed us. There is no reason for food to
go to waste, and we just have taken it upon ourselves to help the cause. We all
love our kids as much as women, but other people's kids fit in with the
whole selective memory point. We remember important (fun) stuff, not someone else's kids.
That also goes for the golf. Who wants to remember those three shots a hole
that went 10 yards.
As far as the mags, I prefer ESPN, but have been known to check out my
girlfriend's Cosmo for some good tips, and they work!
But I could care less for Gwyn or Jen. I'm a Denise Richards man, myself. Keep up the great work! Brandon Spencer
Indianapolis
You know, I read somewhere that on Monday nights, Stuart Scott watches two
televisions side by side: one tuned to football, and the other tuned to "Ally McBeal." Is this so?
I have to admit to watching "Ally," then changing channels around halftime. Well, unless the Giants are playing. Nicholas Kim
Red Bank, N.J.
Who is this Mike Greenberg, and why is he admitting to reading InStyle, a
women's magazine? Mike, even when you are caught and have no way out,
always remember: Deny, deny, deny. You have shamed all men! Tom Boyer
New York
Chris was good, but she missed one of the best:
The medical reports that come out saying stuff like 80 percent of men have noticeable hearing loss by age 40 are all part of a scam we're pulling on our
wives and girlfriends. We can hear fine. It's just that after a long enough
time, we know enough to stop listening to certain things.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten away with continuing to watch
the
ballgame instead of attending to a crying child by just ignoring the sound
and then later giving the dumb look to my harried wife, saying "The baby was
crying? Really? I never heard a thing."
And that doesn't even begin to get into the tried-and-true not leaving the
couch to meet the girlfriend at the door or helping bring in the groceries
on the dodge of "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you drive up." (Never mind that with
the TV and stereo cranked all the way up and a thunderstorm going on outside
we can hear the pizza guy a quarter mile down the road and meet him at the
head of the driveway.)
I will probably be called before the man council for giving up this bit of
intelligence, but it's one of the best scams we've got going. Steve Baas
Madison, Wis.
You're right about men reading women's magazines, but you missed one the big
reasons why ... research!
I remember sitting in my girlfriend's dorm room during my freshmen year of
college, while she read a Cosmo quiz out loud. It was fascinating. I started
leafing through women's mags whenever I got the chance -- especially if they
had "how to get the perfect man" type articles. This wasn't feminine
behavior
on my part -- it was scouting!
Why waste time trying to figure out the other team's strategy, when you can
just read their playbook? Pete
Harrisburg, Pa.
I have to agree with just about everything she said, except the part about
women's glossy magazines. I'll admit, sometimes the eye will stray while
waiting in line at the store, but any in-depth examination involving
actually opening the magazine has a different purpose, at least for me. I, and many
friends of mine (married, committed or single) will only turn the pages to
find out if that cover article on "what men want," why men ___," or "is he faithful?" actually comes close
to the truth. That is, are They on to us, are They safely off track again,
or do They finally get it?
As far as missing the kids goes, I don't even work odd hours or weekends,
and I miss my kids, so I guess we love 'em, too! Chris Horning
Arvada, Colo.
Chris left out one important thing. Maybe because of "sensitivity issues,"
they censor themselves, but all men (married or single) gawk at other women.
It's our favorite thing to do. When we shop with you women, the only thing
that brings us pleasure is to stare at women we don't know. Brian Bashynski
Milwaukee
Not a bad piece ... and I'm happy to see not too much was revealed on topics
such as Paltrow vs. Aniston. I'm still curious how much actual "guy talk"
Chris is privy to. We (men) tend to be a lot more explicit (and even
somewhat disgusting) when women are not within earshot. Steve Maughan
Nutley, N.J.
I would like to begin by saying that Chris cheats at golf also. Her math is
more than a little fuzzy when she is on the golf course. I never thought all
the times my friends and I picked on her playing sports when we were younger
would actually help prepare her for her future career.
So, Chris, even though you have never thanked us for all the times we let you
play goal in hockey so we could just shoot at you (no defense, of course),
you're welcome.
Also, Chris would hide all the good junk food before either of my brothers
or I even knew Mom had brought it home. Brian McKendry
Newtown, Pa.
You also forgot the rule about "double parking" at urinals in the men's room
(we will pee outside or hold it rather than using the urinal directly next to another guy). Pat Burke
South Bend, Ind.
You've missed the point entirely of why men tell other men when they're
going to "use the bathroom."
It's to answer the unasked question, "Where are you going?" Because all men
in the company of other men will want to know if they are venturing to the
kitchen to get another beer. If this is the destination ... then the
kitchen
traveler is obligated to fetch more beers for the group.
By stating your bathroom destination, you are precluded from getting someone
a beer. No man has ever said, "Hey, on your way back from [the bathroom],
grab me another beer." It just isn't done. Maybe it's because men are not
exactly known for their hygiene ... I'm not sure. But I do know that, by
announcing my destination, there is no chance that I have to get anyone another beer but myself.
And that is a beautiful thing. Chris Adams
Arlington, Va.
Hilarious and so true. Some other observations: Men claim to not care what
you look like, but they are known to actually request outfits. On the flip
side, they have been lovingly known to point out that I "look like death" in
the absence of makeup.
You can eat as much junk as you want around them with no fear of a
disapproving "do you know how much fat is in that?" lecture.
The beer thing is totally true. They may offer to buy the drinks, but
appreciate ordering a sensible Corona over a $7 froofy fruity thing. Beer
girls make them comfortable -- wine and mixed drink girls raise the "high
maintenance" warning flag.
The selective memory thing is also dead on -- some are almost to the
"Rainman" point of knowledge retention. But ask when their significant
other's birthday is? Forget it.
Overall, I wouldn't trade working with guys, especially in sports -- they're
not catty, they don't notice the days when you have to wear your "fat
jeans,"
they trip over each other for the guy-given-right of drink buying, they'll
threaten to beat up any troublesome ex, and they'll never ask you what you
thought of last night's "Ally McBeal." Sounds good to me! Melanie
Detroit
I know that only men were asked to comment on the article, but as a
25-year-old girly-girl who lives for sports, it really rang true for me. I
feel stuck in between my desire to watch SportsCenter or read the latest
Cosmo article about "How to create the perfect smoky eye for Fall." And
while Chris McKendry nailed some of the male idiosyncrasies, she left out a couple
that I experience daily with my guy friends:
1) Men will spend anywhere from $1,000- $5,000 on a stereo/DVD/Surround Sound/TV system, but won't cough up $40 for matching (clean) bath towels. Or Comet.
2) Expect you to have a fully-prepared Thanksgiving-like feast when they
come over to watch the game -- just because "you're a girl." I've only got beer
and mustard in my fridge just like the rest of y'all.
3) And lastly, when we gals get together for a "Girls' Night," we do
not wear sheer lingerie and have squealing pillow fights, eventually
leading to girl-on-girl orgy action. We wear mud masks and sweats, clip our
toenails and bitch about you. Vicki Paulo
Sacramento, Calif.
OK, let's break this down by points:
1. With two brothers and a sister, I learned that if you didn't have quick
hands, you didn't eat at all. Personally, I think if women wouldn't put
twice as much food on their plate as they intend to eat, they wouldn't have this
problem.
2. There is no such thing as a meaningless stat. If it was meaningless,
nobody would know about it, and ESPN certainly wouldn't have a "Did You
Know?" segment. 'Nuff said
3. Who cares? No, really, am I ever going to meet this 2-year-old?
4. Amen, there are dads out there who really care about their kids, mine
included. Love you, Dad!
5. If I was as good as my scorecard said, I'd be playing at Augusta, let me
dream. By the way, don't tell me women are honest to their loved ones about
how much money they spent at the mall.
6. OK, so the women I see looking at the ESPN The Magazine issue with a
half-naked sports star are reading the articles? Right, and the Bengals are
gonna go all the way this year.
7.When together in a group, women are childlike concerning sex, period.
8. I agree with Chris, Gwyneth. James Cribbs Jr.
Columbus, Ohio
I think what you've failed to realize is how much of an honor it is to be
included in the "guy realm". Most of the time when men act "like men"
(according to women) around women, they are chastized and put down. So,
typically men avoid revealing their true selves around women.
It's not that we can't handle the abuse ... it's just that we'd rather not
deal with it. This is clearly proved by your husband's laughter at the
"just used the bathroom" comments. The guys who you hang with at lunch and on the
set are telling you that they can relax and trust you with their true
persons. They know you won't mind them being themselves, and I bet they not
only appreciate it, but respect it. Just don't reveal too much of what goes
on and you'll always be welcome.
As for the comment, "Jennifer looks like she'd drink a beer," I'll translate. Mind you, I obviously didn't catch the whole conversation, so I'm at a
disadvantage. This would mean that they think Aniston would be more fun than
Paltrow -- Aniston would go to a football game, willingly; she wouldn't be
appalled if someone belched or "passed gas", and she might join in; she
laughs at the disgusting guy jokes; she can take a joke/jab, and dish a
sweet one out, too; she can fight.
All in all, she looks like she'd have a beer. Or maybe she'd come to lunch
with them if invited.
You're in good company. Justin Riba
Seattle
I enjoy your columns, Chris, and you've pretty much hit the proverbial nail
on the head with your observations on guys. However, most guys would never
consider what you've written as "secrets." We've never tried to "hide" the
points you've discussed. If your female readers really consider the
article enlightening, I'll further clarify a few points you made:
1) Yes, guys go to lunch together to simply eat. If they want to discuss
sports, family, tell stories, they do it over a beer at a local bar. Lunch
is not usually the place to "catch up", but the local pub is.
2) In regards to point No. 1, guys rarely perform the "tell me what's going
on with your life" on the telephone. Seems females like to use the phone as
a place to spill their souls. Phone conversations between buddies that last
more than 10 minutes must be due to either a sports debate or telling old
college stories for the 50th time. By the way, most guys always tell old
college or high school stories over and over ... get used to it.
3) The Paltrow vs. Aniston debate is only one in a line of numerous debates
about women. You can substitute nearly any two famous women and argue which
one would you take. It is not limited to age because you can say "The young
Sophia Loren vs. Tyra Banks." You can even debate about women only you and
your buddies know (friends, another friend's sister, other girls). Just don't debate with your buddy about his wife, sister, relative or ex-girlfriend,
and you're safe to pick and choose any woman for debate.
P.S. Debating women has nothing to do with fidelity or lack thereof.
4) Most guys remember facts, but dates are a little more difficult. A guy
can tell you the pickiest of details of almost any party, social event,
memorable story, etc. Few will remember the date it occurred. Most guys do
remember that The Masters is played about a week after the Final Four. Most
great bowl games are played on the week of New Year's. The Super Bowl is
most often the last Sunday in Janaury, and the World Series is usually concluded on the last week in October.
Exact dates are not necessary. Example: The exact date of the Celtics 1986
title was -- no clue. Who cares, you got the year and season correct.
Therefore, if a guy is within a few days or a week of a semi-distant
relative's or friend's birthday, he's done his job. I will agree with you
that a guy should remember his kid's birthdays and his wife's or
girlfriend's. If he's a day off on the wife or girlfriend, you still need let him off on the first offense. Kevin Forbes
Newton, Mass.
